My husband and I
teach Sunday School for the 16-18 year-olds in our ward (congregation). About
five minutes before class ended, someone entered the room. He was an adult in
his late 40s-early 50s. He came in as if he had done this before and quietly
sat on a chair in a back corner. My first assumption was that he was the
Sunday School teacher for the other ward that meets in our building. Soon after
sitting down, he rose his hand and asked a question regarding something I
had mentioned about BYU. I answered and we moved on. A couple of minutes later, he asked if I would share how I felt about women and the
priesthood. This had nothing to do with the topic at hand (Paul’s letters to the
Philippians and Colossians in the New Testament), so I told him that we could
discuss it after class.
I’m getting the
feeling that he’s not another Sunday School teacher.
We prayed and the
youth started to leave. The man then spoke up, informing everyone
that I had not dismissed them. The youth continued to leave as if he hadn’t
said anything while I explained that the end of prayer signals dismissal.
Yeah, definitely
not another teacher.
Our conversation started. Before I began, he let me know
that he was once an active member and had served a mission, but became an
atheist during his time in the Marines afterward. He said he was seeking the
truth. I then spent about a minute discussing different aspects of the
priesthood relating to women as taught in various general conference addresses.
When he saw that I was knowledgeable on this topic, he tried to bring aspects
of priest craft into the discussion, hoping that I would not be able to
differentiate between the two. When it became apparent to him that I knew the
difference between priesthood and priest craft, he insisted that I show proof
that the two were indeed different. I shared between 15-30 references using the
gospel library app.
*Side Note: At this point, my husband had returned with our children. When the man saw them enter, he stopped and said that if I didn't want to keep the discussion going, that was fine; he "didn't want to make me uncomfortable." I let him know that, in my home, open gospel conversations are commonplace; we have no holds barred. I had no problem continuing with our discussion. My two oldest stayed and played while my husband followed our 2-yr-old around the church house.*
Since I gave him the references, he asked (read: accused), "So, now you just expect me to believe you?" I told him that he had access to the same resources that I did and he could do his own research. However, he insisted that I had the burden of proof and therefore, it was my responsibility to prove it to him without him looking up a thing.
"I’ve never really seen proof as a burden,” I said.
*Side Note: At this point, my husband had returned with our children. When the man saw them enter, he stopped and said that if I didn't want to keep the discussion going, that was fine; he "didn't want to make me uncomfortable." I let him know that, in my home, open gospel conversations are commonplace; we have no holds barred. I had no problem continuing with our discussion. My two oldest stayed and played while my husband followed our 2-yr-old around the church house.*
Since I gave him the references, he asked (read: accused), "So, now you just expect me to believe you?" I told him that he had access to the same resources that I did and he could do his own research. However, he insisted that I had the burden of proof and therefore, it was my responsibility to prove it to him without him looking up a thing.
"I’ve never really seen proof as a burden,” I said.
“Hmmm, you’ve
obviously never been to law school.”
“No, I haven’t.”
He then explained
to me that the burden of proof is a legal term; it means that the person who
has the evidence has the obligation/burden to prove it to everybody. He then
continued:
“For example, I
don’t believe that God exists, but you do. You say you have evidence to support
this. Therefore, you have the burden of proof and it’s your job to make me
believe you.”
“That’s not my
job. I can’t prove that God exists to you. That’s a spiritual thing; you have
to find out for yourself. I can give you all the resources you need, but
whether you seek on your own to find out is up to you.”
He didn’t like that response, but didn’t have much to say either, so he changed the topic again and didn’t even try to be subtle about it:
He didn’t like that response, but didn’t have much to say either, so he changed the topic again and didn’t even try to be subtle about it:
“You’re in a
church where women are submissive to men.”
Surprise, surprise...he didn't believe me when I disagreed. He reminded me that, as a woman in the Church, I would never be a bishop. (Pssst...Can you feel my heartfelt remorse at the thought of never having that responsibility? I'm busy enough as it is.) So, I threw out the simple fact that, if a man has a leadership position in the Church in which he oversees both men and women, there is a requirement that he has to be married to a woman.
Guess what? He had no rebuttal (see how I can use legal terms, too?) because he didn’t know that. So he started dramatically shaking his head and asking over and over again for about a minute,
"Do you realize what you just said?!" Do you know the implications of that?!"
Of course, my stating a fact has no implication associated with it; he was trying to get me to say something to give him more fuel. But have no fear! He regrouped when he remembered that I had said the word married. So, he turned the conversation to the LGBTQ+ community...
"A homosexual man could never be a bishop.”
"Not unless he's married to a woman. The same applies to a straight man: If he's single, he can't be a bishop. It's not about sexual orientation here. It's who you're married to."
Since he didn't get the answer he was hoping for, he decided to try to make things more personal. He asked me what I would do if my oldest daughter and son told me they were gay. I told him that my love for my children and our relationship is not based on sexual orientation. Then he tried to dig a little deeper regarding my son:
"But he will never be a bishop!”
Surprise, surprise...he didn't believe me when I disagreed. He reminded me that, as a woman in the Church, I would never be a bishop. (Pssst...Can you feel my heartfelt remorse at the thought of never having that responsibility? I'm busy enough as it is.) So, I threw out the simple fact that, if a man has a leadership position in the Church in which he oversees both men and women, there is a requirement that he has to be married to a woman.
Guess what? He had no rebuttal (see how I can use legal terms, too?) because he didn’t know that. So he started dramatically shaking his head and asking over and over again for about a minute,
"Do you realize what you just said?!" Do you know the implications of that?!"
Of course, my stating a fact has no implication associated with it; he was trying to get me to say something to give him more fuel. But have no fear! He regrouped when he remembered that I had said the word married. So, he turned the conversation to the LGBTQ+ community...
"A homosexual man could never be a bishop.”
"Not unless he's married to a woman. The same applies to a straight man: If he's single, he can't be a bishop. It's not about sexual orientation here. It's who you're married to."
Since he didn't get the answer he was hoping for, he decided to try to make things more personal. He asked me what I would do if my oldest daughter and son told me they were gay. I told him that my love for my children and our relationship is not based on sexual orientation. Then he tried to dig a little deeper regarding my son:
"But he will never be a bishop!”
“Do you think I’m
aspiring for him to be a bishop?”
“But he will
never have the priesthood!”
“So…?”
Our conversation then came to a close. He got very quiet and squinted. While staring hard, he said,
"But what about your salvation?!"
Our conversation then came to a close. He got very quiet and squinted. While staring hard, he said,
"But what about your salvation?!"
“What about it?
Salvation is individual. The path my children choose to take when they’re
adults will not affect my salvation.”
“But Families.
Are. Forever.”
“Yeah, and that’s
exaltation. You just asked about my salvation. They’re not the
same thing.”
He paused for
effect, and then…
“You are so
pious.”
I’m pretty sure
he was trying to insult me, but I was quite flattered.
…okay.”
“You are
incredibly pious.”
…okay.”
He then gathered his things and, with a simple "Good Day," left the room.
With that discussion out of the way, I have 3 warnings to raise. I know I’m not the prophet and I do not pretend to be giving these warnings in any official stewardship capacity. I also know that this isn’t likely to be new information, but that doesn’t mean we don’t need reminders.
Warning #1
He then gathered his things and, with a simple "Good Day," left the room.
With that discussion out of the way, I have 3 warnings to raise. I know I’m not the prophet and I do not pretend to be giving these warnings in any official stewardship capacity. I also know that this isn’t likely to be new information, but that doesn’t mean we don’t need reminders.
Warning #1
Dear Youth of The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
Fifteen minutes
before this gentleman entered the room, I told my class that there may come a time
in which they would have to stand for the truth. I also told them it likely
wouldn’t happen for a few years. I lied—it started happening 5 minutes before
class got out that day.
If this man had
walked into the Sunday School class for adults (there were two that day), he wouldn’t have made it for five minutes and he
knew that. He intentionally chose a room with teenagers and even tried to keep
my students in the room after class had ended; he was banking his success on
the idea that you don’t know enough to stand for the truth. People with his intentions hope that you
will start to doubt if you hear someone asking questions. They think you’re
spiritually weak.
This is an
insult. You are strong enough. Every generation is stronger than the last and
you are no exception. I don’t care what older generations are saying about “the
young people these days.” You have unlimited access to the same sources of
truth that the most seasoned adults have. You are not less able to access the
guiding power of the Holy Ghost just because you’re young. You have the entire
gospel library in your pockets. You can study and use it just as well as any
adult.
Warning #2
Dear Females, My Fellow Sisters in the Lord,
This man not only
picked a classroom with teens, but he was also looking for a female. (He didn’t
know that my husband—who blends in quite well with younger people—was also in
the room when he entered.) He probably figured that a female would get
uncomfortable and not have enough knowledge to hold her own.
He picked the
wrong female and I’m grateful for that. Did I appreciate the 20 minutes he took
out of my Sabbath? Not really, but I know that there are females in my ward
that would have been flustered during an encounter with him. He may never
realize it, but even with his evil intent, he was in the Lord’s house and the
Lord led him to the room of a member who was prepared.
The Lord protects
His people.
We have been advised for many years that the time has
come for sisters to be scriptorians, to do our research in order to understand
gospel truths, and come to understand the differences between tradition,
policy, and doctrine. Sisters, how are you doing on that front? I’m not saying
that you have to engage those who want the type of discussion that I had, but
if the situation arises, can you protect or do you need protection?
Warning #3
Dear Parents
and Teachers,
It used to be that, in these situations, we were told
that the best thing to do was to bear your testimony and walk away. That’s a
nice idea, but it does not coincide with scriptural accounts. In the
scriptures, those being attacked stood their ground with not only their
testimonies, but also their knowledge; they knew why they believed, not
just that they believed. They also knew where their sources of
information were.
I mentioned that
my two oldest children were in the room during much of this discussion. They played in the
room, seemingly unaware of what was going on. As soon as the man was gone, they ran to me and, with great worry, asked who the man was and why he was
there and why he was talking about church stuff the way he was. They had been
paying close attention the entire time and knew that something wasn’t right.
I have taught my children that they should study the gospel and look for answers to their questions because, (1)
they need their own testimonies, (2) they may have to answer others’ questions,
and (3) the time may come in which they have to defend the Lord and His gospel.
Words are nice and all, but now they have seen the “why” first-hand. That
experience has spoken more than my words ever could.
Regardless of whom we are teaching, do our words match
our actions when the time for preparation has passed?
Doctrine and Covenants 38:30 says: “Treasure up wisdom in
your bosoms . . . if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.”
The Lord’s not kidding.
You're better than I am! I team teach the same age group in my ward and if the same thing happened, I would have gotten maybe 2 questions in before I left and referred him to the missionaries.
ReplyDeleteAs Sweet Brown once said, "Ain't nobody got time for that"
Thank you for sharing your experience with us Sarah. Your message is a good one and is very important to all of us.
ReplyDelete